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-   -   The Latest Fluke Proposals- Up to 21 and 1/2 inches!?!? (http://forums.noreast.com/8-general-fishing-forum/99038-latest-fluke-proposals-up-21-1-2-inches.html)

Captneilf 02-18-2008 07:01 PM

Hey,

at least I thought I had a different idea. Let me know when you want to vent and I will try again.

neil

MakoMike 02-18-2008 07:02 PM

JC30967 wrote:
Mike-

Last year, as you probably know ;), the Viking had a special permit to fish for porgies after the season closed on Oct 31. Is this the same idea?

In a word YES

RunNgun 02-18-2008 10:34 PM

crabman1130 wrote:
RunNgun wrote:
crabman1130 wrote:
stonebuster wrote:
The second option of 20 1/2 inches and four fish is definitly the better of the two choices with an earlier season too. Enjoy fluke fishing this year because they're going to tell us we went over quota again next year and how much more restrictive can they get without shutting it down completely?
Why not go to 21" or something that will keep us in comlpiance for the whole season. I'd rather have to throw them back then have them close the season early and not be able to fish for them at all.



we fell for that last year and look where it got us- blindsided us with almost two months of decent fishing season left





So you are saying that we should keep it at the minimum lenth so we are just about assured an early closing.

"Brilliant"






Not what I said at all crabby. We're all for whatever length gets us the longer season since our business depends on fluke thru to early fall. I was merely reminding what they pulled on us last year after we bought into the bigger fish/longer season bait and switch.

catchawave 02-18-2008 10:55 PM

why are new jersey's regulations less strict than ours in new york? are they different populations of fluke?

WaterAye 02-18-2008 11:25 PM

JC wrote:
Last year, as you probably know Wink, the Viking had a special permit to fish for porgies after the season closed on Oct 31.

Because the Viking has a federal permit for scup and participated in the annual Research Set Aside (RSA) phone auction. They bid on and won at least one lot of scup which they can use in the calendar year (2007)whether the season is open or closed. I don't remember what they paid. Likely somewhere around 60 cents a pound. They must call and fax in before and after each trip in which they intend to use the RSA quota. From what I heard they did not use much of what they purchased and were attempting to sell it before the year ended to recoup some of the money they spent.

Purchasing RSA is a gamble and many boats have lost. You pay for it and there is no guarantee you will catch it.

Almost all the RSA quota is sold to NY fishermen because they never received their fare share of the quotas from the beginning.

The 2008 auction was held in December 2007. Many fishermen were frustrated with how expensive everything was. Fluke was over $3/pound. It should be called a User Fee which I think is more descriptive then Research Set Aside Quota.

Catchawave wrote:
why are new jersey's regulations less strict than ours in new york? are they different populations of fluke?

NJ State fisheries managers and more importantly NJ NMFS port agents did a great job of collecting NJ landings of fluke during the base line period (1980-1989). This lead to NJ receiving a large portion of the coast wide quota when it was divided between states.

I have read about the two stock theory for fluke but it is not commonly accepted and is not responsible for NJ's less stringent regulations.

eskew 02-18-2008 11:59 PM

WaterAye wrote:
I have read about the two stock theory for fluke but it is not commonly accepted and is not responsible for NJ's less stringent regulations.
Hey WaterAye, can you or anyone else here elaborate more on this two stock theory for fluke:confused::confused::confused:

crabman1130 02-19-2008 02:05 AM

RunNgun wrote:
crabman1130 wrote:
RunNgun wrote:
crabman1130 wrote:
stonebuster wrote:
The second option of 20 1/2 inches and four fish is definitly the better of the two choices with an earlier season too. Enjoy fluke fishing this year because they're going to tell us we went over quota again next year and how much more restrictive can they get without shutting it down completely?
Why not go to 21" or something that will keep us in comlpiance for the whole season. I'd rather have to throw them back then have them close the season early and not be able to fish for them at all.



we fell for that last year and look where it got us- blindsided us with almost two months of decent fishing season left





So you are saying that we should keep it at the minimum lenth so we are just about assured an early closing.

"Brilliant"






Not what I said at all crabby. We're all for whatever length gets us the longer season since our business depends on fluke thru to early fall. I was merely reminding what they pulled on us last year after we bought into the bigger fish/longer season bait and switch.




I think I see what you meant. Sorry. It didn't read that way at first.

JC30967 02-19-2008 06:59 AM

Watereye-

Great info, thanks. Im not sure yet how to quote a part of a post, but you said something that I think is very relevant to the debate over rec. catch reporting that's going on in the Fisheries Management forum.
" NJ State fisheries managers and more importantly NJ NMFS port agents did a great job of collecting NJ landings of fluke during the base line period (1980-1989). This led to NJ recieving a large portion of the coast wide quota when it was divided between the states".

I don't want to get off topic here, but I just thought this was very important. Recs opposed to mandatory rec reporting should consider this!

catchawave 02-19-2008 08:15 AM

geez it has been 18 years, i think it is time to do some more research and redistribute the quota.

WaterAye 02-19-2008 11:04 AM

Eskew wrote:
Hey WaterAye, can you or anyone else here elaborate more on this two stock theory for fluke

I read about it some years back in a periodical called: Marine Fisheries Review, the issue was dated 6/22/2001. You can read it on the web:

www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-100732738.html

Here is an except, but the article is good you should read it:
Phenotypic Variation

The potential existence of independent spawning aggregations of summer flounder in the management area has prompted many studies that compare phenotypic traits among groups determined a priori. While environmental factors affect expression of the traits and can confound interpretations, some have made efforts to control for environmental effects, and geographically distinct phenotypes have been described as evidence of multiple stocks. Latitudinal variation in growth rates has been observed through holding experiments, length frequency analysis, and through back-calculation of size-at-age from hard parts (Dery, 1981; Powell, 1982; Szedlmayer et al., 1992; Malloy and Targett, 1994; Burke et al., 2000). Morphometric and meristic analyses were able to discriminate differences among individuals from north and south of Cape Hatteras (Ginsburg, 1952; Smith and Daiber, 1977; Wilk et al., 1980; Fogarty et al., 1983, Delaney, 1986). Gel-electrophoresis isozyme analysis further suggests that Cape Hatteras acts as a zoogeographic barrier to the mixing of populations from the north and south (Van Housen, 1984). The variation in growth rates provides a justification for managing multiple stocks (Burke et al., 2000), and the morphological, meristic, and biochemical results could be applied to identify landings from separate stocks. These phenotypic delineations of stock structure have not motivated managers to consider multiple stocks, and lack of a genetic basis for stock structure (Jones and Quattro, 1999) has been used to justify managing summer flounder as a single stock (NEFSC (1)).


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